SENATE: Hearing On The DNI Appointment Of John Ratclife

The appointment of John Ratcliffe.

He was asked if he discussed loyalty with Trump.

I bet he did and was too dumb to know he did.

Hot mess.

#maytheheavensfall

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Rod Rosenstein Has New Friends In Baltimore

"Watch me make history."

My Memo Man, Rod Rosenstein, is in Baltimore, in a corporate law firm, with lots of new friends and Sally Yates.

Can you say "Land Bank"?

How about 2018 election interference.

Perhaps, just perhaps, if we are all very nice, My Memo Man will say "gerrymandering".

I would throw out "drugs, weapons, and tiny humans", but that would give away the mystery as to why he took the position.

I never did like Sally Yates because she took a peculiar stance in a piece she wrote, while at DOJ, entitled, "Poverty is not a crime" and failed to acknowledge where she got that line, then turned around and bastardized it by not making one single reference to child welfare.

She was mean to my Sweetie.

It seems I did not preserve her writings, neither did the DOJ.

My Memo Man is busy, busy, busy.

Stay tuned.

Former U.S. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein Joins King & Spalding as a Partner in Washington, D.C.

Rosenstein is the latest high-ranking Justice Department official to join the firm’s Special Matters & Government Investigations team; he will work closely with a deep bench of former federal prosecutors and senior government officials to help clients with their most challenging litigation, enforcement and reputational issues.

WASHINGTON, Jan. 8, 2020 — King & Spalding today announced that former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein joins the firm’s Washington, D.C., office as a partner on its Special Matters & Government Investigations team.

Rosenstein spent almost two decades in senior legal management and leadership positions at the U.S. Department of Justice during the administrations of Presidents George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump, including as Deputy Attorney General (2017 to 2019) and United States Attorney (2005 to 2017). Prior to his appointment as the Department’s second-highest ranking official, he was the longest-serving Senate-confirmed U.S. Attorney in recent history.

“Rod Rosenstein is an exceptional trial lawyer, strategist and leader with unquestioned integrity and toughness,” said Robert D. Hays, Jr., chairman of King & Spalding. “His arrival underscores the firm’s longstanding commitment to effective advocacy on the most complex and highest stakes government-related matters. Our clients will benefit from the unique experience of Rod and other senior government officials working together as a team. His arrival reflects the firm’s intent to continue building leading practices led by extraordinary lawyers to serve clients on their most pressing and sensitive needs.”

With his vast prosecutorial and enforcement background, Rosenstein becomes another critical member of King & Spalding’s Special Matters & Government Investigations team, which assists clients—corporate, institutional and individual—in sensitive and reputational legal challenges, including many involving government agencies, legislative bodies or state Attorneys General. In the past two years, the firm has significantly ramped up the group with an all-star roster of former senior Justice Department officials, including former Deputy U.S. Attorney General Sally Yates, former U.S. Attorneys Zachary Fardon and John Horn, former Associate Deputy Attorney General Alicia O’Brien and former FBI Chief of Staff Zack Harmon. Other former senior officials recently joining the firm include former Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and former General Counsel for the Office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR) and acting USTR Stephen Vaughn.

Rosenstein said, “I worked with many current and former firm lawyers in both Republican and Democratic administrations, and I learned that some of the best lawyers in the world work at King & Spalding. When considering where to go after leaving the Department of Justice, it became clear to me why so many former government officials choose this firm. With an unparalleled depth of experience across its practice groups and a long and distinguished record of success in courtrooms, King & Spalding is a bipartisan firm that focuses on helping clients resolve complex and sensitive matters in the United States and abroad. The inclusive and collaborative culture allows every client to benefit from the broad expertise and deep insight of more than 1,100 exceptional lawyers throughout the firm’s 21 offices. I look forward to working with my new colleagues to expand the firm’s government investigations, national security and cybersecurity practices.” 

As Deputy U.S. Attorney General, Rosenstein formulated and implemented Department policies and programs; coordinated interactions with the White House and other federal agencies, the Judiciary, and the Congress; interacted with state, local, and foreign government leaders; and provided supervision and direction to all Department components, including its litigating divisions and law enforcement agencies.

Rosenstein conducted complex investigations and handled litigation in trial and appellate courtrooms as Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General for the Department’s Tax Division (2001 to 2005), as an Assistant U.S. Attorney for the District of Maryland (1997 to 2001), and as an Associate Independent Counsel (1995 to 1997).

Rosenstein started his legal career in 1989, as a law clerk to Judge Douglas H. Ginsburg of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. He first joined the Department of Justice as a trial attorney in the prestigious Public Integrity Section of the Criminal Division (1990 to 1993), before serving as counsel to the Deputy Attorney General and the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division (1993 to 1995). In these and other roles, he received dozens of awards and honors for his performance. In addition, Rosenstein gained impressive trial experience while representing the United States at 23 jury trials and arguing 21 appeals in various appellate courts around the country, including the 2018 U.S. Supreme Court criminal case of Chavez-Meza v. United States, in which the Court ruled in favor of his argument.

“Rod deserves his well-earned reputation for being decisive and unflappable in extraordinary professional situations,” said Special Matters practice chair Wick Sollers. “His experiences conducting and supervising large criminal and civil litigation uniquely qualify him to counsel and defend clients facing complex investigations, lawsuits and enforcement matters. Clients will benefit from his big-picture perspective, as well as his insights from having updated, improved and formulated federal law enforcement policies on corporate and white-collar enforcement, national security, CFIUS and cyber-digital issues. King & Spalding’s Special Matters & Government Investigations team is stronger with his addition.”

Rosenstein graduated from the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, with a B.S. in Economics, summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa. He earned his J.D., cum laude, from Harvard Law School, where he was an editor of the Harvard Law Review.

About King & Spalding
Celebrating more than 130 years of service, King & Spalding is an international law firm that represents a broad array of clients, including half of the Fortune Global 100, with more than 1,100 lawyers in 21 offices in the United States, Europe, the Middle East and Asia. The firm has handled matters in over 160 countries on six continents and is consistently recognized for the results it obtains, uncompromising commitment to quality, and dedication to understanding the business and culture of its clients. More information is available at www.kslaw.com.

After Trump administration stint, Baltimore is still on Rod Rosenstein’s mind

As he takes a job with a high-profile law firm, Maryland’s former longtime U.S. Attorney Rod J. Rosenstein isn’t looking to talk much about his time with the Trump administration. He’s turned down book offers, and avoids questions on the subject.

If he did write a book, Rosenstein told The Baltimore Sun Wednesday, “it would probably be a lot about Baltimore.”

The city remains on the former deputy U.S. attorney general’s mind, after 12 years leading federal law enforcement efforts that he said were key to the city experiencing fewer than 200 homicides in 2011. (There were 348 homicides in the city last year.) He remains in touch with protege Robert K. Hur, who succeeded him as U.S. attorney for Maryland.

“It’s important for everybody at the federal, state and local level to agree that reducing murders is a priority,” Rosenstein said. “I’m hopeful they’ll get back to where we were before ... but it’s going to take a long time.”

The law firm of King & Spalding announced that Rosenstein will join its special government investigations team, following about eight months he spent with his family after stepping down as deputy attorney general. Rosenstein said it was Maryland’s former Republican governor Robert Ehrlich who helped connect him to the new job after they had lunch in the summer.

Rosenstein’s tumultuous two-year tenure included writing a memo supporting the firing of FBI Director James Comey and overseeing special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.

[Read more] Before leaving Baltimore, Rod Rosenstein predicted he might not last long as deputy attorney general »
Of his tenure, Rosenstein said, “I’ve been out of government for eight months, and I’m on to a new career. ... I’m practicing law, not politics."

Rosenstein has continued to weigh in on Baltimore’s crime rates and on issues of law enforcement. On Jan. 1, he tweeted: “When Baltimore City prosecutors and police worked with federal and state partners to send every violent repeat offender to prison in 2011, only 197 people were murdered. Now criminals murder 350 victims and shoot hundreds more every year. WHAT CHANGED?”

When Baltimore City prosecutors and police worked with federal and state partners to send every violent repeat offender to prison in 2011, only 197 people were murdered. Now criminals murder 350 victims and shoot hundreds more every year. WHAT CHANGED? https://t.co/7dUt2yd5Bt

— Rod Rosenstein (@RodRosenstein) January 1, 2020

Rosenstein maintains other ties to the city — he was scheduled to speak to a city law club, the Serjeants’ Inn, Wednesday night.

Rosenstein noted that the number of federal prosecutors in Baltimore increased significantly when he was No. 2 at the Justice Department.

“That’s not because I was showing favoritism; we had additional resources and were able to allocate them based on population and crime rates and need,” he said.

He said Hur is “doing a superb job,” and suggested, without citing specific agencies, that other law enforcement partners are not on the same page.

“If people are not being caught and prosecuted locally, they need to find out why that is,” Rosenstein said. “We had a decade of sustained improvements in Baltimore. We had improvements in Prince George’s County [as well] — the PG County improvements have stuck; they have not fallen back. Baltimore is worse today than when I got there 15 years ago.”

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The U.S. Has No Intelligence Director - Sue Gordon Resigns - Who's Next?

Dan Coats picks Ratcliffe to take over his position as National Intelligence Chief.

Radcliff was excited to be nominated by Trump.

Then Radcliff thought twice and decided to decline.

So, on August 15, 2019 Dan Coats resigns.

On August 15, 2019 Sue Gordon stepped in as interim having announced her resignation.

Then, on August 16, Sue Gordon resigns.

Who's next?

Principal Deputy DNI Sue Gordon embodies the spirit of public servants in America. I worked with countless people like her, who did their work with pride, integrity, and urgency because they loved the mission of serving America. Shame to lose her. https://t.co/Wk4QJUDVMB

— Barb McQuade (@BarbMcQuade) August 16, 2019

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Cocktails & Popcorn: Matt Whitaker Is Back To Say Barr & Ratcliffe Are The Perfect Team - The Celestial Goddess Of The Woodshed Concurs

"TEVA, anyone?", said Herrington, the
Super Secret Agent Whistleblower.

Yes, John Ratcliffe is leaving Congress, the U.S. Judiciary Committee, to become the new Director of National Intelligence, replacing Dan Coats, to work with U.S. Attorney Bill Barr.

Yes, they make the perfect team because this is about trafficking tiny humans.

For those who do not remember, or simply do not like to click the links I provide to review what I have been presenting, here is a fun video on Ratcliffe and his work in trafficking tiny humans.

You can see how effective Ratcliffe was when it came to trafficking tiny humans by watching Gowdy's lovely facial expressions.

Trey knows all the stuff.

Matt knows lots of stuff, too.

Trump’s spy chief pick, Texan John Ratcliffe, accused of fudging role in 'Holy Land' terrorism case

WASHINGTON -- The North Texas Republican picked by President Donald Trump to be America's next intelligence chief is grappling with reports that he embellished his role in a high-profile anti-terrorism case he's cited as proof of his national security bona fides.

At issue is the extent of Heath Rep. John Ratcliffe's involvement as a federal prosecutor in the U.S. vs. Holy Land Foundation case, which ended in 2009 with officials at a Texas-based charity being found guilty of funneling money to the terrorist group known as Hamas.

While Ratcliffe has touted that he "convicted individuals" involved in the scheme, ABC News and NBC News this week cast doubt on that account.

Jim Jacks, one of the Holy Land case's lead prosecutors, also told The Dallas Morning News on Tuesday that Ratcliffe "wasn't part of the trial team or the investigative team." Asked if it was accurate to say that Ratcliffe "convicted individuals" in the case, he said, "No."

In response to those reports, Ratcliffe spokeswoman Rachel Stephens clarified this week that the Texan, while serving as U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Texas, was appointed to investigate issues related to the mistrial that occurred in the case's first trial.

"Because that investigation did not result in any criminal charges, it would not be in accordance with Department of Justice policies to make further details public," she said, confirming a written statement provided to ABC News and NBC News.

Jacks, a former U.S. attorney in the Northern District of Texas, confirmed that depiction, explaining that Ratcliffe was "appointed to look into a collateral matter after the first trial" and that the assignment lasted for a "relatively short-lived period of time."

He added that he found Ratcliffe to be "very smart, a very good lawyer, just first-rate."

The dispute over the Holy Land case is no mere résumé dispute.

Ratcliffe, a three-term lawmaker, was already facing criticism that he lacks the experience to be Director of National Intelligence, given that outgoing spy chief Dan Coats and his predecessors came into the job with extensive national security and foreign affairs backgrounds.

That dynamic, along with Ratcliffe's standing as a Trump loyalist, could jeopardize his confirmation in the GOP-run Senate.

Some key Republican senators have so far offered muted reactions, with a few admitting that they were simply unfamiliar with the Texan's credentials. Some top Senate Democrats have already weighed in against Ratcliffe's nomination, casting him as a partisan warrior unfit for the job.

Several intelligence officials have also made clear their unease.

"Mr. Ratcliffe appears to be somebody who is more interested in pleasing Donald Trump," John Brennan, CIA director under President Barack Obama and a frequent Trump critic, said this week on MSNBC.

Stephens rejected those criticisms, pointing to Ratcliffe's experience as a federal prosecutor and then as a congressman serving on the House intelligence and judiciary committees.

"Ratcliffe opened, managed and supervised numerous domestic and international terrorism related cases," she said of his time in the U.S. attorney's office, adding that he "handled top secret, secret and confidential national security information as part of his daily responsibilities."

The Texan's allies have also defended his qualifications.

Texas Sen. John Cornyn on Monday called Ratcliffe a "worthy successor" to Coats, upon whom he heaped praise. Trump on Tuesday hailed Ratcliffe as a "very talented guy. "And former U.S. attorney Matt Orwig, who hired Ratcliffe, said he was "imminently qualified."

Orwig sought to further buttress Ratcliffe's standing by telling ABC News that his one-time protégé worked several terrorism-related cases, though he declined to specify them.

The former top prosecutor in the Eastern District of Texas also told The News that when Ratcliffe served as his anti-terrorism and national security chief, he worked to "bring together all the state, federal and local agencies" involved in security efforts.

"That's the job that he did," Orwig said. "He did it very, very well."

Federal Judge Hands Downs Sentences in Holy Land Foundation Case

Holy Land Foundation and Leaders Convicted on Providing Material Support to Hamas Terrorist Organization

Today, in federal court in Dallas, U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis sentenced the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) and five of its leaders following their convictions by a federal jury in November 2008 on charges of providing material support to Hamas, a designated foreign terrorist organization.

"Today's sentences mark the culmination of many years of painstaking investigative and prosecutorial work at the federal, state and local levels. All those involved in this landmark case deserve our thanks," said David Kris, Assistant Attorney General for National Security. "These sentences should serve as a strong warning to anyone who knowingly provides financial support to terrorists under the guise of humanitarian relief."

HLF was incorporated by Shukri Abu Baker, Mohammad El-Mezain, and Ghassan Elashi. Mufid Abdulqader and Abdulrahman Odeh worked as fund raisers. Together, with others, they provided material support to the Hamas movement.

Shukri Abu Baker, 50, of Garland, Texas, was sentenced to a total of 65 years in prison. He was convicted of 10 counts of conspiracy to provide, and the provision of, material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization; 11 counts of conspiracy to provide, and the provision of, funds, goods and services to a Specially Designated Terrorist; 10 counts of conspiracy to commit, and the commission of, money laundering; one count of conspiracy to impede and impair the Internal Revenue Service (IRS); and one count of filing a false tax return.

Mohammad El-Mezain, 55, of San Diego, California, was sentenced to the statutory maximum of 15 years in prison. He was convicted on one count of conspiracy to provide material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization.

Ghassan Elashi, 55, of Richardson, Texas, was sentenced to a total of 65 years in prison. He was convicted on the same counts as Abu Baker, and one additional count of filing a false tax return.

Mufid Abdulqader, 49, of Richardson, Texas, was sentenced to a total of 20 years in prison. He was convicted on one count of conspiracy to provide material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization, one count of conspiracy to provide goods, funds, and services to a specially designated terrorist, and one count of conspiracy to commit money laundering.

Abdulrahman Odeh, 49, of Patterson, New Jersey, was sentenced to 15 years in prison. He was convicted on the same counts as Abdulqader.

HLF, now defunct, was convicted on10 counts of conspiracy to provide, and the provision of, material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization; 11 counts of conspiracy to provide, and the provision of, funds, goods and services to a Specially Designated Terrorist; and 10 counts of conspiracy to commit, and the commission of, money laundering.

The Court reaffirmed the jury’s $12.4 million money judgment against all the defendants, with the exception of El Mezain, who was not convicted of money laundering.

From its inception, HLF existed to support Hamas. Before HLF was designed as a Specially Designated Terrorist by the Treasury Department and shut down in December 2001, it was the largest U.S. Muslim charity. It was based in Richardson, Texas, a Dallas suburb. The "material support statute," as it is commonly referred to, was enacted in 1996 as part of the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act. That statute recognizes that money is fungible, and that money in the hands of a terrorist organization — even if for so called charitable purposes — supports that organization’s overall terrorist objectives.

The government presented evidence at trial that, as the U.S. began to scrutinize individuals and entities in the U.S. who were raising funds for terrorist groups in the mid-1990s, the HLF intentionally hid its financial support for Hamas behind the guise of charitable donations. HLF and these five defendants provided approximately $12.4 million in support to Hamas and its goal of creating an Islamic Palestinian state by eliminating the State of Israel through violent jihad.

The government’s case included testimony that in the early 1990's, Hamas’ parent organization, the Muslim Brotherhood, planned to establish a network of organizations in the U.S. to spread a militant Islamist message and raise money for Hamas. The government’s case also included testimony about Hamas material found in zakat committees. The defendants sent HLF-raised funds to Hamas-controlled zakat committees and charitable societies in the West Bank and Gaza. Zakat is an Arabic word referring to the religious obligation to give alms.

HLF became the chief fundraising arm for the Palestine Committee in the U.S. created by the Muslim Brotherhood to support Hamas. According to a wiretap of a 1993 Palestine Committee meeting in Philadelphia, former HLF President and CEO Shukri Abu Baker, spoke about playing down their Hamas ties in order to keep raising money in the U.S. Another wiretapped phone call included Abdulrahman Odeh, HLF’s New Jersey representative, referring to a suicide bombing as "a beautiful operation."

The government also presented evidence that several HLF defendants have family members who are Hamas leaders, including Hamas’ political chief, Mousa Abu Marzook, who is married to a cousin of Ghassan Elashi, HLF’s former Chairman of the Board. Ghassan Elashi, who also served as the vice-president of marketing for Infocom Corporation, is currently serving an 80-month sentence following his conviction on several charges related to export violations. Mohammed El-Mezain was HLF’s Director of Endowments and Mufid Abdulqater was a major HLF fundraiser. Two named defendants, Akram Mishal and Haitham Maghawri are fugitives.

The defendants provided financial support to the families of Hamas martyrs, detainees, and activists knowing and intending that such assistance would support the Hamas terrorist organization. Since 1995, when it first became illegal to provide financial support to Hamas, HLF provided approximately $12.4 million in funding to Hamas through various Hamas-affiliated committees and organizations located in Palestinian-controlled areas and elsewhere.

During trial, the government also presented evidence that HLF was so concerned about investigators uncovering the group’s intentions that they kept a manual entitled "The Foundation’s Policies and Procedures." HLF followed various security procedures outlined in the manual to include hiring a security company to search the HLF for listening devices, ordering defendant Haitham Maghawri, a fugitive, to take training on advanced methods in detecting wiretaps, shredding documents after board meetings, and maintaining incriminating documents in off-site locations.

The case was investigated by the Joint Terrorism Task Force, involving agents from federal, state, and local agencies including: FBI, IRS - Criminal Investigation, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Department of State, U.S. Secret Service, U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Division, the Texas Department of Public Safety, and the Dallas, Plano, Garland and Richardson, Texas, Police Departments. In addition, the Department of Justice Criminal Division’s Asset Forfeiture and Money Laundering Section provided assistance.

The case was prosecuted by James T. Jacks, acting U.S. Attorney; Barry Jonas, Trial Attorney for the Department of Justice Counter-terrorism Section; and Elizabeth J. Shapiro, Deputy Director, Federal Programs Branch, Department of Justice, serving as a Special Assistant U.S. Attorney.

Just a naming coincidence, I am sure.

Mississippi Medicaid Fraud ... by Beverly Tran on Scribd

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Cocktails & Popcorn: Day 20.5. Live With JK and Task Force

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Joint Statement From Attorney General Sessions, FBI Director Wray, DNI Coats, CIA Director Pompeo, And NSA Director Rogers On FISA Section 702 Reauthorization

Reauthorizing Section 702 before it expires is vital to keeping the nation safe. Let us be clear: if Congress fails to act, vital intelligence collection on international terrorists and other foreign adversaries will be lost. The country will be less secure.

There is no substitute for Section 702. If Congress fails to reauthorize this authority, the Intelligence Community will lose valuable foreign intelligence information, and the resulting intelligence gaps will make it easier for terrorists, weapons proliferators, malicious cyber actors, and other foreign adversaries to plan attacks against our citizens and allies without detection. Section 702 has been instrumental in preventing attacks on the homeland and removing terrorists from the battlefield.

To be clear – Congress is not required to make any changes to Section 702. The Intelligence Community conducts and uses 702 collection in a manner that protects the privacy and civil liberties of individuals.  Every single court that has reviewed Section 702 and queries of its data has found it to be constitutional.  The Intelligence Community’s use of Section 702, which permits targeted surveillance only of foreign persons located outside the United States, is subject to extensive oversight and incorporates substantial protections to protect the privacy and civil liberties of individuals.  In short, we believe Congress got it right in 2008 when it passed Section 702 and in 2012 when Congress reauthorized it.  Nevertheless, the Intelligence Community continues to be open to reasonable reforms to Section 702 to further enhance the already-substantial privacy protections contained in the law, but we simply cannot support legislation that would impede the operational efficacy of this vital authority.

We also believe it is important that Congress reauthorize Section 702 before it expires on December 31, 2017.  Although the current Section 702 certifications do not expire until April 2018, the Intelligence Community would need to start winding down its Section 702 program well in advance of that date.  Winding down such a valuable program would force agencies to divert resources away from addressing foreign threats. Short-term extensions are not the long-term answer either, as they fail to provide certainty, and will create needless and wasteful operational complications. We urge Congress, therefore, to act quickly to reauthorize Section 702 in a manner that preserves the effectiveness of this critical national security law before it expires.

Jeff Sessions
Attorney General of the United States

Christopher Wray
Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation

Daniel R. Coats
Director of National Intelligence

Mike Pompeo
Director, Central Intelligence Agency

Admiral Michael S. Rogers
Director, National Security Agency

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CONYERS To Intelligence Community: "Breaking Your Promise On Section 702 Is Unacceptanle

Washington, D.C. - In April and December of last year, a bipartisan group from the House Judiciary Committee wrote to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to ask for “a public estimate of the number of communications or transactions involving United States persons that may be captured by Section 702 surveillance on an annual basis.”  On April 7, 2017, Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) and Ranking Member John Conyers, Jr., wrote to Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats to renew that request. 

Today, in testimony before the Senate, Director Coats reversed the position of the intelligence community and announced that the production of that estimate would be “infeasible.” 

House Judiciary Committee Ranking Member Conyers issued the following statement in response:

Dean of the U.S. House
of Representatives
John Conyers, Jr.

“The intelligence community has—for many months—expressly promised members of both parties that they would deliver this estimate to us in time to inform our debate on the reauthorization of Section 702.  As late as last August, we had discussed and approved the specific methodologies that the NSA might use to make good on their promise.

“Today, Director Coats announced that the estimate is ‘infeasible’ and will not be forthcoming.  I find that outcome unacceptable.

“Over the course of the last year, we believed we had worked past the excuses we are offered today.  The nation’s leading civil liberties organizations see no threat to privacy in this project, and have said so publicly.  The agencies demonstrated to us how they might perform this analysis without significant diversion of resources.  I am deeply disappointed in a return to these old talking points.

“Section 702 is built on trust.  It will be more difficult to find that trust as we move forward with the debate.”

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